Curse

Snowman · Apr 05, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Since the FPE its obvious that an Alliance has a leading Guild!..

As a Guild-Leader this poses me with a very tough question! Do I look for an appropriate alliance to JOIN or do I FORM my own ?

I have contacts in several guilds and we've spoken about the potential for alliances, but I get the feeling that most of them want to be the leader of the alliance, as opposed to joining someone elses... a pride issue, so I suspect they are more likley to want to form their own alliances.

Now, if 90% of Guild leaders out there want to FORM their own alliance I feel its going to be damn hard work to find guilds who will sign up

Im not afraid of the hard work, I love it, but it MIGHT be much easyer for me to join someone elses alliance to start with.. see how the whole alliance thing folds out then maybe ask the guild what they want to do.

If however most of you leaders out there feel the same as me, in that it might be a lot less headache to JOIN rather than FORM, it might be easyer to get people together.

I really would like your thoughts on this as I dont have long to make a decision

Billiard · Apr 05, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

We may look for 2-4 allies, but most likely we'll start off Factions with an alliance comprised wholly of in-house guilds. Currently XoO has 8 different divisions, 6 of them very large, with a good mix of PvE and PvP players, as well as timezones.

The best thing about this method of building an alliance is that no matter which of our divisions is the "Lead Guild", we'll still have the same leadership and command and control structure in place. This makes it much easier to coordinate activities as compared to having a traditional alliance of small guilds, each with different leadership and different ideas and goals.

Snowman · Apr 05, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Thanks Billiard,

So your basically forming your own alliance out of your current guild, which, you have already split up into smaller guilds. Interesting.

We arnt quite big enough to do that, with the guilds we are freindly with having their own clear leadership.

Billiard · Apr 05, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Thanks Billiard,

So your basically forming your own alliance out of your current guild, which, you have already split up into smaller guilds. Interesting.

We actually didn't split up into smaller guilds but rather had to open new guilds as the main one filled up. Some of our growth has been driven by smaller guilds merging into us in order to become more active in PvP, but most of it has come from adding new members one at a time - we get 5-10 new join requests a day it seems.

Anyway, probably any allies we choose will be larger, well known guilds. Other smaller guilds will probably have to merge with one of our divisions in order to be a part of our alliance. This brings up another issue which I think is going to loom even larger than the alliance one you suggest. Every guild wants to maintain it's own identity, but alliances of small guilds are going to have trouble attaining top alliance status.

lennymon · Apr 05, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

There's a lot of presumption about what'll make a premium alliance, and they seem all over the place. On another(no names) forum I read there was talk awhile back about how the top ranked guilds would easily control the premium lands in the faction. While this would obviously be the case were alliances set up by gvg ranks, the fpe weekend has shown (me at least) that any large relatively active guild can be competitive.
I think based on the fact that its not even out yet speculating and merging at this point is a little premature. Our guild (see avatar info) has been forging "pre - alliances" and mending old ones (from beta weekend pre release) While we use guild portal for free hosting and the added alliance features already built into the web hosting. Its going to be easier with in game alliance chat come factions release.
I'd recommend to anyone else, communicate with other guilds which have a like mindset/charter to yours it will reduce the tension in the alliance. Set up good communications now to prepare for alliance formation. Discuss who wants to be the lead guild AND how it will be run (perhaps rotate the lead guild). All guilds have identity and pride otherwise they die.

Billiard · Apr 05, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

I agree that guilds need identity and pride in order to survive, and I suspect that a lot of guilds will be leery of giving these up in order to form bigger guilds and thus bigger alliances (in terms of sheer numbers). In fact that seems to be the case now- although many guilds clamor about not having enough folks online on a regular basis to field a team of 8 for GvGs, you really don't see a lot of merging and such taking place. Why? Because everyone wants to keep their name and cape and hall - their identity in essence. Guesting eases this burden so people can ignore the issues related to size and inactivity. It won't be the case if guilds want to compete at the alliance level though.

Right now there are just a few mega-guilds, but depending on the mechanics for gaining faction, I suspect that there will be more in short order if people truly wish to be the best alliance. Mega-guilds have communication and coordination infrastructures in place already that will alleviate a lot of the issues that face "Pick Up Alliances" or "PUAs." In an alliance based on a mega-guild there is no need to rotate leadership around or share TS/Vent/Forum access with outsiders in order to coordinate activities - all this is already being done. What's more, there is no need to hope to find guilds of likeminded people to ally with, as the folks who are already in your mega-guild already buy into you vision, mission, goals, and objectives.

So in essence, even if mega-guilds are not needed in order to be successful in Factions due to the nature of the faction gaining mechanics, they still have inherent advantages that allow them to adapt relatively quickly to the strategic environment relative to an alliance composed of 10 different guilds and lead by 10 different leaders.

So while it might be pre-mature for guilds to start merging on a mass scale, I would argue that it's something folks should think about now. It takes a lot of effort and coordination in order to create and run a mega-guild. Are you as a guild leader willing and able to take on that job if that's what it will take in order to be a member of a top alliance? If the answer is yes, then probably you can wait and see what happens and then quickly act. If the answer is no, then perhaps you should start taking a look around now for a means to do that. Mega-guilds are getting a lot of offers now for forming alliances. As such most of those will regretably have to be turned down since there is a 10 guild limit to alliances. That leaves merging as the only alternative if you want to be a part of that large alliance waiting for Factions in order to form.

lennymon · Apr 05, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

I've had good experiences with you guys (XoS expat - left to help get my home guild more active), and your system will indeed prove to be an advantage. But for the rest of us, even larger active guilds will gain advantage by forming alliances in Factions. My advice is communication is the key, share TS/vent now, do interguild events --- sounds like marriage and in a sense its very similar. With some work and good effort at communication a two guild alliance will be stronger than the 2 guilds seperately. Everyone is worried about losing guild identity within an alliance, to this I say: A healthy guild needs fear nothing from being a member of an alliance, the alliance needs to fear the strong guild within as it will heavily influence the weaker members. This pearl of wisdom only really says fortify your guild, make it strong active and healthy, then join any alliance with the confidence you SHOULD rightfully have!

Detrick Sky · Apr 05, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Lots of good points have been made in this thread. I have to aggree with a lot of what Billard has said. There is generally two good ways to go about forming alliances.

One is much the way XoO has done. They have expanded in numbers which has allowed them to form subguilds that follow one particular leadership and communication structure. They are in a great position as factions is close to release in that they can move forward while many of us will need to start interacting with other guilds. They can find one or 2 more guilds that would fit in with what they want to accomplish.

The second most effective method is to work on finding likeminded guilds and start to work on a leadership and communication structure that everyone can live with. This will take a signifiicant amount of time on the guild leader part. There will be lots of bumps to work out. Once the agreements have been made, make sure you have a well written write up that can be posted on your respective forums. Be prepared for lots of alliance jumpers when things go bad which may happen in the beginning.

As GW factions goes live, I would not be surprised if we see many of the small guilds merge. Mega-guilds will increase as players want to be part of the end game content. If you look at some of the other games over the years (like WoW or SB), mega-guilds cropped up everywhere because players want to be into the main end game material.

lennymon · Apr 05, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

hmmm, here's a liberating if somewhat rhetorical question
what IF all of the current guilds were wiped for Factions, and we all had to start over with guilds, would that change how we approached factions, would it make us question what was important to us, or would we just all try to join the biggest baddest alliance out there? Everyone of course will have a different answer, hence the plethora of guilds out there now

I truly hope that the elite mission areas are not as limiting as all that. But the true positives I see already for factions are:

Promote/rewards community and working together

Clearly caters to the total gamer, i e those of us who like to play the whole game

Dynamic! - the world isnt static so why would we be

A mega guild will not necessarily improve access to elite zones, any more than a 10 player (however awesone) gvg guild will pwn in factions. We just don't know yet. As for the smaller less active guilds merging... perhaps... they may disband alltogether, but neither would surprise me either. Basically just start communicating with other folks, and you'll already be ahead of the game for factions.

Snowman · Apr 06, 2006, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Thanks for all the comments,

It seems most who have responded are part of mega-sized guilds, who have a much more mature out-look on the forming of Alliances. With your guilds being so big already the question of which guild leads is more a case of how to decide it for the purposes of communication and organisation of such large amounts of people! Your guilds do not face the threat exstinction after forming/joining a large alliance, rather it would strengthen you even more.

However, not yet having built my guild quite as large, or even being well known in the competative GvG scene I cant really use the advice offerd, I am still stuck with the question of if I should try and form an alliance of similar sized guilds, or if I should take my guild and join up to a larger more organised alliance.

Obviously the main problem with joining a larger forming alliance is that they will look down on my guild as fresh pickings, take my best players and kick the guild. So the only thing I can do to protect us from that is make sure our guild is large enough and active enough for the leading guild to think twice about doing such a thing.

After your comments I think I am going to concentrate on using the rush of extra activity on the release of factions to increase the guild in size and activity, only once people have done the PvE will the question of alliances need to be answerd (Im hoping)

One other question I would have for the larger guilds is that of nationality.. will they be US only, Eu only or mixed?

Before now I've not wanted US peeps in our UK Guild simply because we dont get to play with them due to the time difference, however I think that having a mixed nationality alliance would mean that there is constant activity around the clock!

lennymon · Apr 06, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Actually my guild's a single guild (but we have allies) with about 70 members at any given time during more peak hours we might have as many 10-15 online. So by no means 'mega'. As for US/UK memberships, I think 'spiking' faction will be viable then farm till you lose the land. The impression I have is that lands will be awarded (or re-awarded) probably every 24 hours. So really having folks in roughly the same time would be good to coordinate spikes (by this I mean have folks cash in saved up faction about same time).
On a less practical note, don't sacrifice identity for size and power.... keep your guild flavor. It may be stronger in the long run (whats with all these yanks, Im outa here)

.

Chrono Trigger · Apr 08, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49

I agree, I think alot of people will have a Power Struggle. I am a Guild Leader of about 10 maybe less....( Any 1 wanna join let me know,lol) But yeah I dont care if im Alliance with some one... I really dont know too much about this whole Alliance thing,so....I wouldnt mind letting some 1 be the Alliance leader...But when it comes to mergeing guilds, thats where my Pride runs in and I wanna be the Leader.

Detrick Sky · Apr 08, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Obviously the main problem with joining a larger forming alliance is that they will look down on my guild as fresh pickings, take my best players and kick the guild. So the only thing I can do to protect us from that is make sure our guild is large enough and active enough for the leading guild to think twice about doing such a thing.

This should never happen. Every alliance I have been apart of had rules against recruiting other guilds players.

Kura Touzoku · Apr 08, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I think it actually falls down to "Who's fit to lead?" and not "Who's going to lead?" I'd be happy to step down to someone who's a good leader, but not to someone who seems too prideful and just wants the power.

But i see alliances being much guilds are now: some will leave on a whim, some will leave because they're not higher status than others (in guilds, being officer, in aliance, being leader). There'll be people who'll want to join the best alliances, and will descriminate because of people in it.

Detrick Sky · Apr 09, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kura Touzoku

I think it actually falls down to "Who's fit to lead?" and not "Who's going to lead?" I'd be happy to step down to someone who's a good leader, but not to someone who seems too prideful and just wants the power.

But i see alliances being much guilds are now: some will leave on a whim, some will leave because they're not higher status than others (in guilds, being officer, in aliance, being leader). There'll be people who'll want to join the best alliances, and will descriminate because of people in it.

good points.

Talinna · Apr 09, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

I think the whole alliance thing was set up from two different points of views, which in the end will leave us at the same point.

Little guild can form alliances to have a larger number of people to play with.
While the larger guilds will have a better in game way of keeping all of their branched off guilds together.

The guild I'm in was founded with the vision to branch off under a theme, more than likely we'll run with this theme solo for awhile then gain alliances.

While we aren't a "Mega" guild 'yet'; we would still want to be a leader because of the simple fact that we do have so much invested in our website, TS and name.

It's almost like making a guild merger.
You don't want to lose all that you have worked for to build up your guild under your standards by merging with somebody that will turn out to be a control freak and in the end divide your guild.
You also have your officers to think about.
How will the get along with the leadership in the other guids?
Will these lead guilds just try to steal your members or your money then kick you out of the alliance?

Motivation is a lot of it.
Balance is another good part.
I think if PvP active guilds could/would allie with PvE active guilds there would be a good balance and players wouldn't feel as trapped into one side of the game.

Billiard · Apr 10, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

The issue though I think is that most decent guilds will have a lot invested in forum, TS and name if they have been around for any length of time. So most decent guilds will end up feeling like they should be lead and still you end up in the same place.

Snowman · Apr 10, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

The issue though I think is that most decent guilds will have a lot invested in forum, TS and name if they have been around for any length of time. So most decent guilds will end up feeling like they should be lead and still you end up in the same place.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with my point here.

Although not a large guild, or by any means competative, I've invested considerable time and money in Forums, Website, TS, domain name..etc..

Its still a difficult decision for me either way, and one I dont think I will be able to make on my own, rather a joint one based on how the whole guild feels after playing factions for some time first.

I think for now all we can do is just wait and see.. Im not against the idea of joining up with another alliance, but then Im not against forming our own either...

lennymon · Apr 10, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Here's a basic answer I guess. IF you can get other guilds to agree on what side to be on, the alliance leader title is almost meaningless. Folks can easily agree (enlightened self interest) to all donate towards the guilds/alliances standings, and to all work on reaping the rewards when you are granted land and an elite mission. The alliance leader has more to lose by alienating the other guilds, as they are able to reform without the previous leader. I say don't worry to much about it, it'll all sort out

. Leaders are often not the ones with the crowns on their heads and the pompous strides. Leaders, well they lead... You arent't losing influence when you are part of an alliance and not the titular leader, AND you have an opportunity to lead by example and influence all those other guilds.

Guardian of the Light · Apr 10, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

I wonder why everyone is stressed out about this.

1. Alliance leaders only extra powers is taking out guilds from the alliance, recuiting new guilds and choosing a faction.

2. Guild Leaders still control things inside their guild.

3. You can always leave an alliance and form your own.

In that sense you won't have any extra powers if you choose to stay alone.

This is more of a ally with a guild rather then a merge guilds thing. My guild is allying with 3 other guilds probably the last thing we thought of was really who was going to be the alliance leader. Were all keeping our forums and TS for our own guilds.

To us its 4 guild leaders and 1 of them is the one who pushs the button to boot guilds, recuit guild and go run out and ally with the faction everyone whats to ally with.

Think of an alliance like the UN. They don't run the world but they are an alliance of nations.